September 3, 2014

US Departments of Labor and Treasury Schedule Hearing on Confiscation of Private Retirement Accounts

On August 26, the US Department of Labor issued a news release (http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/newsroom/2010/ebsa082610.html).  It lists the agenda for the joint hearings being held with the Department of Treasury September 14-15, 2010 on what is euphemistically called “lifetime income options for retirement plans.”  The hearings are being conducted by the Labor Department’s Employee Benefits Security Administration.

I don’t like speaking in tabloid-style terms, but the unstated agenda of these hearings, as I understand it, is to push for the US government to eventually nationalize (confiscate) all assets in private Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs) and 401K plans!

The US government is desperate to get its hands on private assets to help cover soaring budget deficits and debts, and this is simply the largest and easiest piggy bank that could be seized.  The Investment Company Institute estimates that at the end of 2008 that there were $3.613 trillion of assets in IRAs and $2.350 trillion of assets in 401K plans.

For more than the past ten years, I have warned readers that the US government was eventually going to go after private retirement accounts.  I considered that as the most important reason to avoid establishing precious metals IRAs.  Very few other writers (Ron Holland being one) have picked up on this issue as early as I did.  In fact, the mainstream media pretty much ignored the subject even after a House Committee held hearings on the issue in October 2008.

Obviously, an outright seizure of assets would meet stiff resistance from the public.  So the confiscation will never be described as such by government officials.  Expect to see terms such as “retirement income protection” thrown around.  It is highly likely that such a program would be implemented in steps to help overcome public opposition.

The US government plan is to eventually take ownership of all assets in IRAs and 401K accounts and replace them with US government “Treasury Retirement Bonds.”  In the October 2008 hearings, it was proposed that these bonds pay a 3% interest rate.  Another major change is that, upon retirement, the individual’s retirement account would be converted into an annuity.  Once the individual is deceased, the individual’s heirs would not inherit anything (similar to what happens now with Social Security “accounts”).

Among the steps that could be taken to accomplish total confiscation are to first make the conversion voluntary, then make it mandatory for only a portion of total assets.  The final step would be making it 100% mandatory for 100% of all assets.  One idea proposed in the October 2008 House Committee hearings (after trillions of dollars had already been lost in most assets categories) to help push this plan onto the public, was to allow the seized assets to be replaced with government bonds at a face value of a previous higher valuation date.  The idea was that a private citizen, who might have lost 20-50% of his retirement asset value, would be much more willing to accept an inferior retirement asset if doing so allowed them to recoup the losses.

Obviously, brokerage companies and mutual funds strongly object to the potential loss of fees they are now receiving for private retirement plan services.  The Investment Company Institute, whose member companies manage more than $11 trillion of assets for about 90 million investors, reports that 96% of surveyed households object to the US government requiring that retirement assets only be distributed as annuities.  Among the scheduled speakers at the upcoming hearings are representatives from the Investment Company Institute, Fidelity Investments, Putnam Investments, Lincoln Financial, and Vanguard.

These mid-September hearings have to be evaluated in conjunction with the introduction on August 5 of S. 3760, sponsored by Senators Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) and John Kerry (D-MA) to established mandatory automatic IRAs for many workers who are not covered by company retirement programs.  If enacted, employers of such workers would be required to pay 3% of compensation into these accounts, which would have the effect of increasing the assets that the US government could then seize.

As recently as my July 27 CoinUpdate column, I have continued to warn readers to avoid establishing precious metals IRAs—specifically because of this risk of confiscation.  I have also long advised that the companies pushing such accounts to customers were giving their customers bad advice.

But, if you already have a precious metals IRA, what can you do now to continue to hold gold and silver as insurance against the decline in the value of other assets?  I’m sorry, but I don’t have any perfect solutions.

Any legislation is likely to take time before it becomes law.  Therefore, while individuals need to begin to plan how to protect themselves, there is no need for immediate knee-jerk reactions.

Among the options to consider are distributing assets from the retirement accounts and paying the respective income taxes on them.  In this way, you can maintain custody of most or all of the assets (depending on where you come up with the funds to pay the taxes).  However, if you are under the age of 59-1/2, you may be subject to an extra 10% excise tax for taking a premature distribution.  As ugly as this option is, which could accelerate tax payments, it is perhaps the best protection against having assets turned into US Treasury debt.

Another possibility is to sell off your precious metals in a retirement account and replace this holding with gold and silver outside of any retirement account.  This would preserve your precious metals position, though it would leave other assets at risk of confiscation.

For some, it may make sense to see what kind of incentive (bribe) is offered for those who voluntarily convert their assets into US Treasury debt.  Because gold and silver prices have been rising for the past decade, though, there may not be any such benefit available.

If I hear of other good ideas for protecting wealth from what I expect will ultimately be outright confiscation of IRAs and 401K assets, I will pass them along.  In the meantime, give serious consideration as to whether it is worth making future contributions to private retirement accounts.

Keep in mind, contemplating confiscation of private retirement assets is a sign of extreme desperation by the US government.  By implication, it is a loud warning that the future value of the US dollar is almost certain to be much lower than it is today.  Owning gold and silver, outside of private retirement accounts, is now a much more important wealth-protection step than ever before.

Update 9/2/2010 - See the next column for additional information and responses to comments.

Patrick HellerPatrick A. Heller owns Liberty Coin Service in Lansing, Michigan and writes “Liberty’s Outlook,” a monthly newsletter covering rare coins and precious metals. Past issues can be found online at http://www.libertycoinservice.com/ Pat Heller is also the gold market commentator for Numismatic News. Past columns online at http://numismaster.com/ under “News & Articles”. His radio show “Things You ‘Know’ That Just Aren’t So, And Important News You Need To Know” can be heard at 8:45 AM Wednesday mornings on 1320-AM WILS in Lansing (which streams live and becomes part of the audio and text archives posted at http://www.1320wils.com.

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Comments

  1. lou says:

    I’m not sure how you draw the conclusion you do. It is just another option the US will give you. You now have the option to buy various types of annuities with your retirement account. Nowhere does it state they will force you into converting your retirement account into an annuity. As far as I know we all have that option now. I looked @ various types of annuities (self, self & spouse, 20 years, life time, etc, etc) & decide not to buy one. Now I have to withdraw a dollar amount every year & I invest it any way I want to.

  2. Matthew says:

    Patrick,

    Interesting post. This eerily reminds me of FDR’s implementation of Social Security. SS posing as insurance, while it is really only a permanent tax.

    I might suggest real estate as a way to hedge against federal financial blunders in the future. There are some great opportunities, especially in rental real estate. An IRA can even be used to purchase these properties. Just a thought.

    You should check out Income Property magazine. It’s another nice source that focuses on current market trends and informative advice on real estate. http://incomepropertynews.com

    Regards,
    Matthew

  3. FredB says:

    Won’t happen. This plan would crash the stock market as massive stock/fund sales from retirement funds would be required to raise the cash for the govmn’t bonds.

  4. connie klug says:

    Won’t happen? I didn’t think that the government could enforce manditory health care, I didn’t think they could pass bils without reading them (they state that they pay professionsals to read the bills and then give them a synopsis) that’s what we pay THEM for! People-open your eyes, for crying out loud stop listening to mainstrean media and EDUCATE yourself. You may hate Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, but please, try to listen to the content of the message. Be vigilant against propaganda. I watch MSNBC and FOXNews, I listen to talk radio. You can blatantly see the difference. The ones of you that follow are destined to be the sacrificial lamb. I can’t believe how many black people are tricked into believing the Democratic Party is ‘for’them! Again-educate yourselves. I know its hard when you’re standing in line with your hand out expecting someone else to feed your fat a++, you don’t even know that the KKK was originally (and still is today) founded by DEMOCRATS! Lincoln was a Republican, how did you lose your way? Oh, I know, its just easier to live off of my paycheck than it is to go to FREE school and get good jobs. I learned a long time ago that I can make more money on my own than what someone else is willing to give me. Nothing changes unless you change what you do, continue to expect the same results. And as far as illegal immigration-my great-grandparents came from Germany (a country which for centuries was under Roman rule and Germanic tribes were used as slaves-Im still waiting for my retribution of 40 acres and a mule from the Romans-get over it already)and were sharecroppers. My grandmother was born in a corncrib with the only protection from the cold Nebraska wind was layers of newspaper which my g-grandmother had put on the slatted walls of the building. I have pictures of this shed they lived in, where as many babies died as lived. But they made it. They went through the proper channels and lived the American dream due to hard work, not by living on handouts. Welfare recipients make me SICK. Get off the couch and get a job! I need someone to help me clear cedar-come on!

  5. Nick says:

    Connie, you’ve got your finger on the pulse of this nation. Spread the word!

  6. Hans Markham says:

    Standard info…..this has been on the Web for years now. I do believe that it will happen which is why I cashed half of my IRA out last year and the balance earlier this year. Bought gold and silver with the proceeds (after paying the taxes) and have already covered the taxes thanks to the rise in gold and silver. Bought all physical from a company here in San Diego.
    Good luck to everyone if this happens!
    Hans

  7. multflag says:

    IMO it is not a case of “if” but rather “when”. Uncle Sam is hard up for money and they will steal it any way they can

  8. Dualtrack says:

    This is ridiculous fear-mongering.
    And not particularly good fear-mongering.

  9. wahoos81 says:

    Dualtrack,
    If you believe this is merely fearmongering, you’ve got your head so far up your a__ that even a proctologist couldn’t help you.

  10. oldham says:

    This is really shameful … or shame*less*. A coin dealer trying to frighten Republicans into cashing in their retirement funds to buy coins … unbelievable.

  11. Numnutz says:

    You can’t eat Gold or Silver for dinner.

  12. Able Freeman says:

    At least gold and silver have a multi-millennium history of holding value. Way better than government paper and that includes federal reserve notes. So enjoy your wall/toilet paper. As for me I am getting out (of paper that is)as fast as possible.

  13. Able Freeman says:

    PS I guess you should buy storable food then. I will be doing that as well!

  14. David says:

    Mr. Heller: Your article is appreciated and the subject should be alarming to millions of people. But saying that plans to confiscate retirement funds exposes a “desperate” government is just not sufficient. It is criminal!
    As an older fellow subsisting on SSDI and Medicaid, after getting my “clock cleaned” a few times, I think it is high time we persecute, prosecute, and execute a host of the members of the Federal Union of Criminals Unlimited. Just look at how they have looted Social Security, Medicare, and run every other program we have paid for into bankruptcy with their malfeasance!
    We should not let them take another dollar for anything! Ever!
    We must secede from the District of Criminals if we are to succeed, survive and thrive! Government is killing us!

  15. Ponygal says:

    I called a few precious metals places regarding my IRA. One place out and out told me what this article is saying. It also ties in with the UN’s Agenda 21 where they want to depopulate the earth, (it’s right there to read on the UN site), and a general’s remark on a call I was on who said the plan is to depopulate the earth by 3 billion people. This makes sense to me as well since GMO foods are basically poison, our vaccines are poison, our toothpaste with flouride is poison, aspertame is poison, (rat poop actually), and this is coupled with Bill S.510 aimed at making vitamins, homeopathic drugs, and organic gardening illegal. So put the retirements under government control and when they kill you, they get to keep all the money. The generals said that was the reason for the depopulation–”It’s the only way to balance the budget.”

  16. Ellen K says:

    So what are people in their early 50′s to do? We’ve been forced to move 401K’s to IRA’s because of job changes. Right now most of us are barely hanging onto our houses. And it appears that with dwindling social security benefits at a much later age, there is no light in this tunnel except for the train bearing down on us. Short of utter despair, do we cash out and buy real estate? But that would only subject us to what will be escalating property taxes as value drops but cost of services do not. Do we buy precious metals outright? At that point there is always the mandate to turn in gold and even silver if the government decrees-it’s been done before if you will recall. This is not a problem that arose overnight. We have allowed the 1960′s era radicals to infiltrate our government under the guise of progressivism. In the short term, getting rid of entrenched politicians is a start, but that in itself is not enough. Government is going to have to contract. That is going to be painful as generational poverty is now accepted as the norm in many regions. We will have to become less charitable on an international basis. We send billions in aid to nations that will never love us and far too often it is turned against us as weapons sold for food. We will have to become more self-sufficient. Part of the job crisis stems from manufacturing going overseas. While I do think some unions have shot themselves in the foot with wages and benefits that simply are not workable, I do not want to see us return to a place where workers are paid slave wages as exists now in China, Indonesia, Malaysia and Mexico. We cannot compete with these countries on cost of manufacturing, but we can start making demands that corporations reaping the benefits of existing here do the majority of their manufacturing here. That will have consequences as well because it means the cost of goods and services will rise. The end story is that we are all going to return to an age of austerity. The days of endless credit and buying things just because they are new are over. But there is a silver lining-with buying less, we will demand higher quality. Quality endures and quality is always sought over cost. Down the line, I honestly believe if we take solid steps now, we can turn this around. But it won’t be easy, and it won’t be quickly.

    BTW, term limits would have gone a long way in avoiding all of this. Allowing politicians on either side to linger for forty or fifty years simply rewards obsolecense. Rangel, Pelosi, Frank are all over 70. They are at the ends of their lives having accrued their wealth. They have so little in common with mainstream America that they honestly are shocked at the backlash progressives are recieving. Not to be ageist, but after a time in any insulated position, people lose touch. Their disdain for the middle class, for the “flyover states” and for common American ideals demonstrates how far adrift our government has gone from its people. We must act now, we must act decisively and we must demand action. If you did what you always did, you will get what you always got. I think we all realize the folly of that now.

  17. Harry Schell says:

    It worked in Argentina, twice, to get the national government through cash cruches. A standard tool now in the socialist aresenal to keep a failed ideology alive.

    Obama is nothing if not addicted to socialist measures and the delusion they work. After all, he has an unlimited supply of arugula and golf balls…what’s the problem here?

  18. Pat C says:

    Here is an idea for those of you who are out of work or making a low wage this year. Use the opportunity to take out money from your IRA/401(k) while your taxes will be low or non existant. You will have to pay the 10% penalty, but consider it a bargain 10% tax rate (rather than the higher tax you will have to pay later). Take the money out of the traditional IRS’s and pre tax 401(k)’s first, as this money will be taxable when you withdraw it. (I do not know if you will owe taxes on Roth IRA’s if you withdraw them prior to 59 1/2), maybe someone here does and can post another posting).

    You will have to figure out how much you can take out before you have to pay taxes, or go up to a higher tax rate. However, for me the first $35K or so is not taxed (because of deductions, dependents, etc.) To allow any potential tax free income to slip by without taking advantage of the full amount is an opportunity missed. This will get a chunk of money out of the governments claws in the future.

    I do not see good things financially for the country as a whole in the near to mid term future. History teaches us when times get bad, sometimes the crazies get into office, causing huge social issues (WW2 for example). Please look out for yourself, it is the best thing you can do for your country.

  19. C. G. Mace says:

    @Ellen K: Quote: “Short of utter despair, do we cash out and buy real estate? But that would only subject us to what will be escalating property taxes as value drops but cost of services do not. Do we buy precious metals outright? At that point there is always the mandate to turn in gold and even silver if the government decrees-it’s been done before if you will recall.”

    I hesitate to purchase precious metals for the same reasons. What would you suggest if one were to cash out their IRA; would not just hiding the “cash” be just as good an alternative?

  20. Joe says:

    @lou
    Although the agenda offers no insight (http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/1210-AB33hearingagenda.pdf
    ) the hearing overview (http://www.dol.gov/federalregister/HtmlDisplay.aspx?DocId=24118&AgencyId=8&DocumentType=3) does provide more information. If you read the overview link provided you will see a definite focus on ‘Fiduciary Safe Harbor’ and we all know the government considers themselves the safest of harbors.

    Although I disagree with Patrick about “the most important reason to avoid establishing precious metals IRAs”, it is simply too small of a piece of the pie for them to be worried about however it seems history would support Patrick’s point that governments always move towards more control than less.

    —-

    In general the point about the government needing the money is laughable. If anyone would do research and understand the government at all levels performs two-tier accounting. They are correct that there is a ‘budget deficit’ however they are not mentioning that they are holders of massive wealth that not included in their ‘budget’ There is so much information out there if people would open their eyes it explains why the government does many things.

    Go research Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports and pull the report for your city, county or State and the numbers will shock you. Be aware that Alex Jones did a video on it but as always happens once he gets involved the subject is relegated to conspiracy theory status. Instead go read and watch the information provided by Walter Burien. Jones did interview Burien and Mr. Burien’s information was good but Alex did his usual inclusion of everything NWO which detracts from the message. Keep your eyes open and pay close attention to some of the language you read, for example from Wikipedia.

    “A Government budget document is a blueprint for a “specific grouping” of government agencies’ spending over the course of an annual financial period. General Purpose Budgets contain both the spending categories of specified units of government, such as school districts, social services, transportation, police, fire, and park services; along with estimates of revenues expected to occur during the year, such as investment return; overrides of money from the previous year, and tax payments. They are usually more limited to the expected costs of running the aforementioned government operations through tax income as opposed to describing the status of any government fixed assets and investment wealth.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_annual_financial_report

    The last statement is giving the important information, it includes fixed assets and investment wealth which is HUGE.

  21. Ginny Fisher says:

    We have friends who buy gold (physical gold) and some who buy silver. Not sure yet what we will do yet, but the time is coming when something will need to be done. Just remember November, and vote conservative. It’s time to take out the trash, i.e. any of our elected ‘representatives’ who would even consider such a move.Let’s get out of the socialistic downward spiral. Send the bums home!

  22. JOHN says:

    THIS IS ILLEGAL FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO STEAL YOUR MONEY THAT YOU INVESTED FROM THE HARD EARNED MONEY YOU MADE THROUGH OUT THE 30 PLUS YEARS YOU WORKED FOR. HOW CAN THE GOVERNMENT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THIS UNDER THE US CONSTITUTION AND OUR LAWS? HOW CAN THEY SEIZE MY MONEY? IT IS MY MONEY NOT THEIRS, ONLY THE TAXES I HAVE TO PAY IF I TAKE IT OUT EARLIER ONLY!!!!

    THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS AND VERY SCARY WHAT DO THESE POLITICIANS THINK THEY ARE COMMUNIST DICTATORS?? AND FIDELITY ONLY CARES ABOUT THE FEES THEY WILL LOSE, THEY SHOULD GO AGAINST THIS BIG TIME TELLING THEM IT IS ILLEGAL. WHO IS KERRY AND OBAMA – CHAVEZ FROM VENEZUELA OR CASTRO FROM CUBA, OR LENIN FROM RUSSIA?

    HOW CAN THEY LEGALLY GET AWAY WITH THIS? THIS IS PISSING ME OFF!!!

  23. JOHN says:

    VOTE ALL POLITICIANS OUT OF OFFICE WHO ARE PLANNING THIS ILLEGAL ANTI-CONSTITUTION ATTEMPT TO STEAL ALL OF OUR RETIREMENT IRA AND 401K FUNDS!!! WHEN ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE GOING TO WAKE UP ONCE AND FOR ALL!!! VOTE ALL DEMOCRAT LEFT-WINGERS AND ALL REPUBLICAN LEFT-WINGERS OUT OF OFFICE AND IMPEACH OBAMA!!!!!

  24. Roger says:

    Along with the possible confiscation of our IRA’s and 401(k)’s is the possibility that this will be done with an executive order and not a bill passed by Congress. Wasn’t that what FDR did when he took our parent’s gold? Also, I wonder if there will be some kind of 9/11 event that Obama can use to cancel the November elections because of the emergency created by his friends. Can you tell that I don’t trust him?

  25. BADKarma says:

    First off: Why should it surprise anyone that the direct, physical reincarnation of Adolph Hilter is following “Mein Kampf” to the letter? He paraphrased it in his campaign speeches, for gods’ sakes.

    Second… Well… Ponygal, hunny-bibbles, you need to put the tinfoil hat back on so the Altairians can’t communicate with you through your psychic fillings any more.

    Every piece of Veganist Jihad propaganda GARBAGE which has been repeatedly debunked for the past 15 years, you listed as a “fact”. 1) Every single food crop you eat is a (BOOGA-BOOOOOOOOGAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!) GMO (GASP!!!!), because every single one of them is a HYBRID IMPROVEMENT OF THE ORIGINAL WILD PLANT. 2) Vaccines are NOT “poison”. It’s kool-ade guzzling, luddite MORONS like you who are the reason we once again have outbreaks of Smallpox, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and all manner of formerly-nearly-defunct diseases throughout the country. 3) Flouride IS poisonous in huge doses, but then again, so is water. The amount they put in toothpaste is no more “poisonous” than aspirin. 4) With not one but THREE Vegan Jihadists appointed as “Czars”, do you REALLY think the ObamaReich plans to “outlaw” useless placebos, vitamins, and getting Salmonella from eating residual animal crap with your produce? Seriously?

  26. Jerry says:

    Two hoots for the FEAR factor:

    False
    Evidence
    Appearing
    Real

    Nice way to use this story to sell rare coins.

  27. debrarae says:

    Dualtrack, the LIBERALS have been trying to CONFISCATE Private Retirement funds since BO was ELECTED (yet not yet sworn in as POTUS).

    Mark Levin did a interview with Professor Ghilarducci. HER exact words were ……”IF someone has a retirement account of $50,000, they are GUARANTEED; a monthly check of $500″.

    In short ………..WE are not FEAR MONGERS …………YOU are CHOOSING to be IGNORANT of the facts.

    That UNLESS of course YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE UNION and stand to BENEFIT from the THEFT of MY CHILDREN’S COLLEGE FUNDS and our RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS. In which case TO HELL WITH YOU!

  28. Sean says:

    Cash out, buy rural timbered land or land with a good start on some. Acreage with suitable timber will always appreciate and provide a renewable resource that creates income–whether it’s in the form of firewood, pulpwood, commercial grade lumber or custom cut wood and veneers (flitch cut, custom beams, spalted, etc). If the world’s population explodes from its current 6.5 billion to 9 billion in coming decades as predicted, land will appreciate even faster.

    Real estate is a good investment, but property taxes and/or HOA dues can nibble away at your investment, especially in cities/towns. Rural acreage with timber creates an extra income much like a rental home–but unlike a rental home in a down economy, the timber will never be worth less at harvest than it was at planting…and whatever form you sell it as, you will offset any tax expenditures and should (I can’t even imagine a monstrous enough mismanagement that could create some obscure result contrary to this…aside from burning your timber down apurpose) always make profits/gains.

    When you consider that a single tree can bring $1200-1500 or more–depending on the type, size, harvesting and intended use–you can see the potential. Additionally, let’s say the absolute worst happens (national economics-wise) and there’s another major depression/collapse…you can live on your land, have fuel, grow food, build a home, and have a valuable commodity to engage in commerce with at a very basic level that isolates it from the technical/industrial sort of collapse that takes the power grid down. Others will need fuel, timber for homes and crafts, etc.

    The value of what can be grown on a property can’t be underestimated either. Someone with soil poor for certain crops may find sassafras trees grow readily and wildly…cultivating sassafras and taking advantage of the fact Atlanta is the major sassafras market in the Western hemisphere would be a natural option to consider. Not for everyone, but possibilities exist for inventive thinkers.

    It’s nothing new…real estate is a good investment. But in a climate of recession/depression and the specter of economic/governmental collapse, the RIGHT land is even more valuable. An outlandishly priced lakefront lot of .45 acres may get you a pretty view, but it won’t help you hold onto that home you’re still paying for when things get ugly. Even a small but well-managed tract of rural, timbered acreage makes for an entirely different story.

  29. I love the USA says:

    Hey everyone,
    While reading your comments I couldn’t help but think how much we can really learn from one another. Take Sean’s comment on the land and trees, who would even know that or give it a thought, or the options for those who have IRA’s or 40lk’s, the different ideas from you all. Can you imagine if more citizens got involved in putting their knowledge and creative ideas for all to benefit, it would be like when people truly cared about one another and stuck together to help and wanted to see your fellow man succeed. Pretty awesome I think. We live in the greatest country in the world, it’s not perfect but it’s still the best by far. Unfortunately we have had leaders in the past and in the present that have not held firm to our great constitution which the framers had originally intended for US. These were great men with minds and spirit and valor,wanted to see the best for all man kind. WE THE PEOPLE have been asleep for far to long and are finally getting insight on what’s going on with our leaders. It would be hard to imagine that our elected officials who are suppose to represent us could be passing these 2000 plus pages of laws and regulations over us and have the NERVE not even to read them or even know what’s in them, who would think that they would do that!!! The Corruption that takes place, MOST of it we don’t even know about, and what we do know we want to yell and scream about! Yes, we need to stick together and put an end to this madness, and get informed as much as you can to start the ball rolling in a positive direction. Learn about your men & women who are running for office and what ideals they represent before you vote!! Let’s get AMERICA back to what it was intended to be, and if any of you have some information that might be helpful to us all I hope you will post it.

  30. MDS says:

    This is for Connie Klug. Maybe you should look into the New World Order since you know so much. Maybe you are not as aware as you think you are. Maybe all black people are not sitting somewhere in a line with their hands out waiting for a hand out. Maybe the Republicans and the Democrats live in the same house. Maybe the two partie system wants you to attack black people, illegal aliens, and Muslims because you waste your energy in the wrong direction. While you are pointing fingers at people on wellfare, you have no problems with the bankers that got the bailouts. Don’t forget it started under the Republicans and continues under the present Democratic reign. You boast of watching the TV media which is under the control of the Elite.
    It seems that you are moving in the right direction with that. Keep on going after the people that are in the same boat as you are. Maybe you might want to get your information from other sources that are not so controlled. I have nothing but love for you, Connie. You are upset but you are upset with the wrong people.

  31. CC says:

    You all are a bunch of 50 plus individuals that rely too much on fear, and believe everything you read on the Internet. This could happen on a limited basis where it would be an option for individuals, but NEVER mandatory. This would crash the entire economic system through revolt and retaliation.

    These fear posts, articles and everything else related to government conspiracy theories is really pissing me off. GET A LIFE PEOPLE, and think positively for once. I’m not saying Obama is anywhere near perfect, and I didn’t vote for him; BUT WHAT THE HELL WOULD YOU DO IN HIS SHOES?

    Give these fear tactics a rest, and put some positive energy into something worthwhile. This article is a waste of Internet space by any standard

  32. MDS says:

    You are probably right CC. Before Sept 11, 2001 there were two twin towers in New York. There is No way that two airplanes will fly into them. Right? We have the best intelligence network and a strong miltary. Negligence or on purpose the twin towers are now gone. Hey,if Lehman and AIG mess up it won’t effect main street because our government will handle it in such a way that Joe citizen won’t have to pick-up the tab. Why if the bankers received bonus money plus kept their pay, and got bailout money, after messing up the USA’s economy there would be revolts and civil unrest. It would just have to be total hell to pay. I can see big bankers with greed in their eyes messing up Iceland’s or Greece’s economy and getting away with it. Maybe it could even happen in England with RBS or in Ireland with the Anglo Irish Bank. However, it won’t ever happen in the USA. We have too many positive citizens around for that to happen here. Just how did Pat Tillman die anyway? I remember the first story that was given out. I never did catch the other stories because they were on the internet. All and All, I think you have a good point with what you wrote, CC. I think we should have told our founding fathers to be more positive about the mother country. England wasn’t giving us the shaft it was just a mix-up in communication. In fact, Tell Paul Revere to get a life and stop riding in the middle of the night and waking folks up over foolishness. We just want to sleep.

  33. Jeff says:

    Armstrong and Getty (910 KNEW San Fran/KSTE 650 Sacto) read a letter this morning from a long time listener who was a high ranking lawyer involved in the bank bailouts. He had access to emails/texts/etc of the heads of the major banks. The system is completely rigged. I hope they get the guy on the air. One thing he wrote that chilled me was that he was certain that we are headed towards an Argentinian collapse. He specifically used the word “Corralito” – little corral. Private bank accounts were frozen, while the elite made sure they were covered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corralito

    I’d recommend listening to the podcast – Sept. 10/hour 3. As others have noted, the Argentine government seized retirement accounts during the crisis.

    This is all terrifying, and unknown ground for most Americans, but I see no willingness to tighten belts in DC. With the passage of the biggest entitlement ever – health care – it’s not a question of if the market will collapse, it’s when.

  34. L. says:

    Have you folks noticed how no matter what the topic, Mr. Heller’s conclusions always amount to two things: gold and silver are going to break-out tomorrow or the next day, and we should all run out and buy lots of precious metals. To be fair, he makes the same point that financial planners do as far as what % is appropriate for most people. But why does he make the exact same points all the time? Both of those points do have some validity if not pushed too far, but I am always skepitcal of someone who always comes to the same conclusions. Mr. Heller does sometimes make contributions I think are useful such as his work on the new 1099 legislation. But this piece realy made me lose respect for him. Annuities have always been an option, but no one can force you to take one. Instead of spending your time at right-ring hate sites, try doing some real research. I read the hearing transcript and it says nothing of the sort suggested by Mr. Heller. People can disagree about stuff, and that is what makes this such a great country, but please stop the fear mongering.

  35. MDS says:

    Hi L,
    Fact gold and silver could have been bought in the year 2002 with less dollars then it requires to buy them today. For example one ounce of gold in a minted coin could have been bought for less than $600 dollars. Today,that same coin would cost about $1,200 dollars. In 2002, A silver one ounce coin could have been bought for $6.00 dollars today the same silver coin would cost $19.00 dollars. These figures are conservative and slightly in error in favor of the dollar. Keep in mind a true silver dollar should be worth one U.S dollar.
    Other facts:
    The dollar is not backed by gold or silver. The United States is not exporting more than it is importing. The United States is in big debt with foreign countries. The two post above you list facts. You have no facts, just the words listed below. In summary your post contains personal opinion as summarized below:

    1.Have you folks noticed how no matter what the topic, Mr. Heller’s conclusions always amount to two things: gold and silver are going to break-out tomorrow or the next day, and we should all run out and buy lots of precious metals.

    2.why does he make the exact same points all the time?

    3.I am always skepitcal of someone who always comes to the same conclusions.
    4.Instead of spending your time at right-ring hate sites, try doing some real research.
    5.please stop the fear mongering.

  36. Joe Rogan says:

    In response to Sean :
    Buy some land ? Build a house ? Sell your timber ?
    I don’t know man. In a place where govt commies can steal the hard-earned money you’ve worked for your whole life, with the stroke of a pen, I think your concept of so-called “private property rights”, is worth about as much as your fabulous $500 govt monthly annuity check after 10 years of 1000% hyper-inflation.

  37. the lost citizen says:

    I tell people to buy silver and gold, and i don’t sell it or have an agenda. It is not fear mongering on my part to tell people to prepare. it is common sense i would hope. i also tell people to raise a garden, can food, ad be prepared to survive off the land. All the signs are there, that we are headed as a nation towards hard times. If things change for the better, good, we have been given more to prepare. we must realize that we are living in strange, chaotic and confusing times. the nay sayers will be right 99% of the time. but the one time they are wrong in the future may cost them their life.

  38. Stop scaring people with propoganda! says:

    Read this article posted on the Market Watch web site, a site that provides detailed info. on stocks, by someone who is not a commie liberal and tell me where it says the government is trying to confiscate 401K’s:
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/annuities-may-be-coming-to-401ks-2010-09-20?pagenumber=1
    Notice that it is the financial companies that sell annuities that are pushing for this option, not the government. Stick to the facts people, not your conservative ideology.

  39. MDS says:

    Who are you? Who are you that you keep ignoring facts and posting this mess. If you say that the financial companies are pushing for the these annuities. The question is how are they pushing for these annuities. Are these financial companies begging for the change,in much the same way you are begging people to believe this garbage that you post. If so that would be good because most common sense people would tell these financial companies to take a long walk off a short pier. However, we know that this is not the case. Can you say campaign contributions. Can you say lobbist. Can you say politician or political leader who is involved in influencing public policy and decision making. Can you say bought and payed for by these financial companies that you say are pushing for these annuities. I know that I can! I ask a question,now,whoever you are? Why do you care if these people who read this article have enough sense to buy Gold or Silver? Why do you care if these people decide to buy some land and grow timber or farm and become self-sufficiency. Why do you care if some of these people decide maybe keep a couple of weeks worth of can food goods and extra bottled drinking water? Who are you that comes to this table and ignores good facts and ask us to believe what you say. Basically 1 + 1 = 3. Do you live in a plastic bubble. Have you seen or heard about politician that got caught like Rod Blagojevich. And he is a boy scout compared to the ones that do not get caught. Surely, you have heard about Bernie Madoff. You ask people to look at the facts then you ask them to do what you do ignore them.

  40. james tribble says:

    What happened to the hearings scheduled for September on 401k/IRA
    Accounts? Jim

  41. artrain says:

    OK, so you buy a bunch of gold/silver. Have you ever held any real gold? Do you know how heavy that stuff is to carry around as currency?

  42. artrain says:

    Also, if you want to be taken seriously, don’t use Wikipedia as your source, geez.

  43. DG says:

    For L who said he/she read the transcript–did you read it in the dark? I have been following this for a long time; however, this is the first time I have visited this site. You are not being fed a bunch of lies as some of you claim. The FDIC completed their audit of all 401k’s and IRA’s in Feb., 2010. for this very purpose. From informed insiders, the plan is for the markets to fail, forcing by scare tactics, first by the option to accept the fixed annuity and then when it is refused; it becomes mandatory. The SS Trust was the greatest ponzi scheme ever implemented by the government. Incidentally, every negative impact against the SS Trust was accomplished under a democratic administration. FDR as liberal as he was, would turn over in his grave if he knew what has been done by his party. He did enough damage on his own. For the person thinking about growing trees for crops; if you intend to participate in any selling program, there is a HUGE amount of paperwork–contracts to be able to sell your harvests. The government has a hand in everything you do. As far as real estate goes; this is the best time to invest in real estate, but you better know what you are doing. The laws change so often and the lending practices change almost daily. The people who have opted to remove their monies from their accounts have probably made the wisest choice; for it isn’t if it is going to happen, but when. Best of luck to all.

  44. Andrew says:

    I cant figure out if they completely made this up or are just REALLY bad at interpreting what they have read….If you do a little research this is completely false info!

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