Great debate. Where do things stand today with NGC’s PL rating for this UHR coin?

-Shane

I agree completely with your assessment of the UHR coin value for “Untouched” coins in Original Packaging. I do however have one issue that only the US Mint can solve. These special issue coins should be placed in a coin holder that is specially sealed. That would ensure the coin has never been removed from the “Original” mint packaging, thus increasing the likelihood that it’s value would increase as more coins are removed by grading agencies and placed in slabs. I have not had mine graded nor do I plan to for one additional concern. I TRUST NO ONE. There is no way for me to guarantee that my coin is returned to me unless I am physically present during the grading process.

For all those who send in their coins – answer me this….. How do you know that the coin you receive back from the grading agency is in fact the actual coin they received from either you or the US MINT? ANSWER is – you don’t. They receive a PERFECT MS70 coin and send you a MS67 back with an apology note saying ” We’re sorry to inform you but but your coin was only a MS 67.”

The idea behind coin grading and the original intentions may have been a good idea but I honestly believe it has turned into a money making scam. If you think about it – where will it end? MS70 Proof Like, MS70 Super Proof Like, MS70 Ultra Proof Like, MS 70 Ultra Super Proof Like, MS70 Ultra High Def Super Mirror Proof Like, MS70 Super Ultra High Def Super Ultra Proof???

It reminds me of the technology industry (broadcast TV in particular since that’s the industry I work). The basic standard in consumer televisions at present is HD, but how many consumers are aware that Ultra HD technology has been in existence (to my knowledge) for at least the past 3 years. Yet it is not in the marketplace yet. Why??? Most likely because is is still way too soon to roll it out. Most people have not yet switched to HD. Many broadcast facilities have only begun upgrading equipment to broadcast in HD. It costs money to upgrade. But once the majority have switched, Ultra HD or it’s newest version will be rolled out to consumers because people get fooled into believing that they can see a crisper better picture. And Yes — ULTRA HD is pretty damn nice if you think it is necessary to count grains of sand on a beach when your watching TV. But honestly — at what point do you just say — “Enough is Enough”!!! If I need to see the sand that damn clear, I go to the beach and pick it up and look at it. It’s all about money. I know there are many arguments that can be made (such as – “People thought that when VHS came out” Now look where we are.) And while I agree – there is a big difference. Enough is enough!!!

I’ll keep my coins in their original packaging – Thank You. And hope that one day – “ORIGINAL” wins out. Because if you look at any other collectible — “Original” mint condition is ALWAYS the most valuable (Unless it has an “Original Signature” on it).
Ron

Concerning your comment “…I personally believe that my purchase receipt from the Mint should carry the most weight regarding proof of my coins “Early Release”…”

The graders would have to believe that you didn’t “switch coins”… i.e take one already graded MS70 PL out of it’s slab, place it in your original mint packaging, and send it off with your receipt… that would turn a $5000 coin into a $30,000 (apparently) coin instantly creating #9 MS70 PL EARLY RELEASE. So you see why a receipt alone can’t be used. Their rule insures that on the day THEY are looking at (and grading) a coin, it has been in the public domain less than 30 days.

I greatly dislike the Early Release designation as it has nothing to do with the coin itself, only it’s shipping logistics. A perfect, sharply struck coin from a “new” die pair can occur any time throughout a coin’s production year, not just in the first month. Without some direct connection with the coin’s condition or appearance, I feel the grading companies are frankly “out of line” by creating scarcity based on “their slab” rather than the coin itself. The “Prooflike” designation’s validity is at least based on the coin, not the slab.

Hey, maybe the graders should issue slabs without any coins in them at all? Then they can create rarities any time they like! Really this kind of thing makes them no better than the “Coin Vault” guys with their “faux rare” gold plated quarters.

As the recent MS70 PL EARLY RELEASE auction shows, it certainly fuels irrational speculation on the part of both dealers and investor/collectors alike. One good thing is it does separate cash from idiots who play the game (though it rewards the sellers). I only wish the ANA would weigh in on issues like this. It’s not just Wall Street that could use some regulation.

Ross

http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-20-Ultra-High-Relief-NGC-MS-70-EARLY-RELEASE-PL-/160425487170?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coins_Bullion&hash=item255a1aab42

is over … $30,100 for the MS70 Prooflike EARLY RELEASE (one of 8 coins). Unreal.

Ross

Thanks again for you input. You make a few noteworthy points and I do plan to continue educating myself. I guess at this point in time, there is more to gain by having coins graded than not however I still have a huge problem someone placing labels on a coin that cannot in any way be authenticated but command a premium. Something sounds suspicious and almost criminal about that.

I personally believe that my purchase receipt from the Mint should carry the most weight regarding proof of my coins “Early Release”. I know that can be debated as well but no more or less than anything else regarding a coins value can be debated.

Again, thanks for you inputs and best regards to you and your collecting/investing endeavours.

Ron