As the new year begins, I'm close to making a resolution to cease bidding in Proxibid auctions whose sessions lack sharp photography. On the one hand, I patronize some of these auctions because I trust or know the auctioneer, in this case, Scott Hall of Hall's Auction, a fair man and also a numismatist with good grading skills. Problem is, mine are better, and I need sharper photos to make wise consumer decisions.
First, a disclaimer: Consider this post a review and my observations, fair comment. Your experience bidding in this or any auction, on Proxibid, eBay or other portal, may differ from mine. That said, below I will share Hall's Proxibid photos and mine, taken with a two-year-old $150 Nikon digital camera. You can see what I won for what amount and whether I should or should not have bid, had I sharper photos able to capture more detail and luster. I'll share my opinion, and it is only that, after each photo shoot. (Click on any photo for a larger version.)
PROXIBID PHOTO: 1882-O won with a $40 bid
I bid on this lot because the reverse looked to me like an 1882 O/S variety. It wasn't. Score this a miss.
MY PHOTO
PROXIBID PHOTO: 1885-O won with a $75 bid
I bid on this lot because knowing how Hall takes photos, this looked DMPL and he did not mark it as such. The reverse especially looked alluring in terms of luster, which Hall routinely cannot capture.
I was correct in believing the coin was DMPL, or nearly so. This coin should have sold for $150-$250. This time I hit. Here are obverse and reverse showing mirrors.
MY PHOTOS
PROXIBID PHOTO: 1881 won with a $50 bid
I bid on this lot because Hall described it as "gem" and an 1881 Morgan, in true gem MS65 condition, is worth more than $675. I disregarded what looked like a contact mark on the cheek, estimated the condition at MS63 worth $75 or MS64, worth more than $100. I shouldn't have dismissed the cheek flaw and would not have bid with a sharper photo, fearing this was a scratch. (It was a deep bag mark, bringing the condition to MS62 at best.) Score another miss and see photo below.
MY PHOTO
PROXIBID PHOTO: 1893 Columbus half won with a $75 bid
I bid on this lot because old silver commemoratives with rainbow toning are in demand, and because the auctioneer described this as gem BU. It wasn't. Look at my photo below and inspect Columbus's hair by the forehead. You'll see wear and bag marks. At best, this is AU58--a slider. I would not have bid. Count this as another miss.
MY PHOTO
With these results, I now am kicking myself for failing to bid higher on an 1884-S Morgan that sold for $220. This has the many of the same characteristics of the 1885-O DMPL that I won with a $75 bid, only with an 1884-S, we're looking at a coin potentially worth between $650 in almost uncirculated condition and thousands in uncirculated condition. Judge for yourself with the Proxibid photo below.
PROXIBID PHOTO: 1884-S won by SOMEONE ELSE
This is what happens when one bids in a Proxibid auction that lacks sharp photos. Repeatedly, I have pressed the company to acknowledge auction houses with superior photos, essential for online bidding. Click here to see some of the best Proxibid coin photography. You get lucky, or unlucky, in hit and miss bidding when you receive the coins and see the actual condition. Often with Hall's Auction I have buyer's remorse--mostly in what I should have bid on, like that 1884-S above.
I like and admire Scott Hall tremendously. He tempts me with his auctions, and on the whole, I have hit more than I have missed in his sessions. But it is in his interest as well as bidders for him to master coin photography. His photos are passable enough to take chances on, but not sharp enough to know precisely what one is buying.
As for me, I'm close to keeping my New Year's resolution of not bidding in any auction with questionable photos that fail to capture detail and luster. After all, hobbyist dollars are as precious as the metals we use them for, and in 2013, I just cannot take any more chances, even with the grading knowledge that I possess and the competitor's urge to score a big bargain. Because of that latter tendency, I deserve what I bid on most of the time. Second resolution: Temper that urge at all costs!
What are your opinions based on the photos above? What are your 2013 bidding resolutions?
To me there is just too much risk in buying raw classic coins esp. online and with less than optimal photos. I only buy classics raw if it is in-person at a show from an established dealer, or online from a couple of dealers I know and trust when it comes to raw coins. It is true there are bargains out there, but to me there is too much downside risk and even knowledgeable people can be fooled, as Michael has shown.
You’re absolutely right, Louis, on all counts. Thanks for your comment, too, and for enhancing the discussion.
My pleasure, Michael. I am curious how you feel about details-graded coins if they have nice eye appeal. For example, I was looking for a Seated Liberty dollar for my type set, which consists mainly of AU coins. I could not afford an AU SL dollar, but I found a nice AU details coin that had received a light cleaning at some point, and it was priced as an XF coin, which makes sense from what a number of people have told me. Would you shy away from such a coin because it’s a bit harder to sell, or would you from time to time purchase something like that?
Never buy raw coins online ,unless you can visit the store the next day.
Louis, another great question: I just completed a column for Coin World on something very much like this. I purchased a DMPL Morgan 1878 7/8 TF that had an ugly bag mark (or worse, staple scratch–I couldn’t tell) for $75. Keep in mind this would run close to $1000 without the mark. I sent it to PCGS anyway, and it graded MS62PL. So yes, you can get inexpensively some great bargains with a net-graded coin. The only problem is in the selling of it later. But the purchase and admiration of such a coin is well worth the price!
I got in a discussion with a dealer last year about a 1903 graded PR genuine Morgan. I showed him a DPL MS64 1879 S Morgan and asked how do they know his was a proof and not a proof like from the Phila mint, they looked the same except mint mark and date. Didn’t get an answer maybe someone here can answer.
It’s a good question, the one hi ho asks. The minting process for a proof Morgan causes a certain flatness in the devices while still providing mirrors without the glassy, scratched look that MS64 DMPLs usually have.
Thanks Michael! I was wondering why the so called proof Morgan carried a genuine slab label and not a PR63 or PR 64. The genuine label doesn’t sit well with me. I have a shipwreck coin with this label on it . I also have a 1941 Proof Walker graded PR 65. I guess the real question is what is this genuine stuff all about ?
In my experience, I would have to disagree with Louis. There are plenty of opportunities in buying raw coins online. Far to many people are stuck on buying the slab and not the coin. I have won more than a few very nice raw coins. I do like to see good pics to make a well informed decision too. But there are a lot of opportunities waiting out there. I won a 1895-O Morgan a few years back on eBay. The pics were not bad, and the coin in hand was even better. I have yet to get it graded, but my local dealer has repeatedly encouraged me to send it in, as it actually has amazing details for a New Orleans dollar. Personally, I just like raw coins far better than looking at them through plastic.
Keep up the good work, Michael.
Thanks for your comment, Brent! I, too, love raw coins … and am too often tempted by them. You can get good deals, as you say; better pix equal better buys. Cheers, Michael
I won a bid on ebay a couple years ago that was pictured like the 1893 half you have pictured above in the mylar flip. When I took the coin out, I found a gash on the reeded edge @ 11:00 that could not be seen. It was a $25 win and spot caught up to silver value so no big deal. I rated the seller with 2 stars,and we went at it. I told him via email he misrepresented the damaged coin and he said its only $25 so you can get your money back for 90% melt. So watch what you guys do if you buy raw coins from across the country on ebay.