eBay.com has announced an update to its coins policy, which will impact new listings and re-listings in coin categories starting on May 30, 2012.
Under the updated policy, listings for coins will be allowed to include a numerical grade in the title or item description only if the coin grading company meets certain objective standards. Coins that haven’t been graded by such companies will be considered raw or ungraded. The only two companies who currently meet the standards are the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) and the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS).
To develop the objective standards, eBay worked with John Albanese, a well known numismatic authority and the founder of the Certified Acceptance Corporation (CAC). The standards companies must meet under the updated coins policy are as follows:
- At least 50,000 coins graded (pre-1956)
- Live, online population report
- At least 3 graders on staff who are considered numismatic experts (an individual who has been a full-time numismatist for at least five years). At least one of the graders should be a member of PNG, and all three should be members of the American Numismatic Association (ANA)
- Stated buyback guaranty in writing for coins later determined to be counterfeit, damaged, over- or mis-graded, or misattributed
- Coins being slabbed must be kept in a unique, state-of-the-art, tamper-resistant holder with anti-counterfeiting measures (e.g.; holograms). Archival materials should be used wherever possible
- Enable online verification of unique serial numbers
The previous coins policy had allowed coins to be listed with a numerical grade for five different authorized grading companies: Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC), Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS), Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS), Independent Coin Graders (ICG), American Numismatic Association Certification Service (ANACS).
Under the updated policy, currently only PCGS and NGC meet the standards required to list coins with numerical grades. Other grading companies that meet the standards may contact eBay.
A second update to the coins listing policy applies to only U.S. coins and requires that all coins listed with a Buy It Now, reserve, or start price of $2,500 and above must be graded by companies meeting the new objective standards.
The new requirements will apply to all new listings and relistings in coin categories starting May 30, 2012. Good ‘Til Cancelled listings will have until June 30, 2012 to comply with the revised policy.
The $2500 policy seems pretty ridiculous. I can’t understand the rationale for this.
I would not be surprised if ANACS sues over this policy.
Michael: Do you know which criteria ANACS does not meet? Perhaps holograms?
I agree with CO. The 2500K policy seems totally arbitrary. Another reason for lawsuits……..
Whoa! I guess there is a collusion between the grading companies and eBay. I wonder how much the kickbacks are? I guess membership in the grading companies will go up. Also, if someone wants a raw coin, they will have to pay extra for it and then crack it out. It does seem like there could be some lawsuits against eBay related to this.
Not sure if this eBay policy means I will not be able to list bullion silver 1oz coins Phils, Maples and Libs devoid of all the stuff mentioned.
Once I get the purchaser’s email I can inform them of the situation in the real world.
Paul, I do not think the policy would apply to your world bullion coins,
at least as I understand it.
Louis – I see it the same way you do. Sellers could continue to list other bullion, but those that are not NGC or PCGS, or simply sold new in box (OGP), will have to be listed as raw or ungraded. I think this new criteria also will make it much harder for sellers to list groups and/or sets of ungraded coins. For instance, most of the BIN listings for raw, 2008 Gold Buffalo PR and UNC 4-coin sets are starting at or above $6K. By definition, those would have to be removed.
Any mention of NCS as unqualified strikes me as odd, but only because they are a subsidiary of NGC that focuses on conserving coins. Once they provide their services, they send the coins across the hall to NGC for grading.
I’m also curious about the characteristic quantity (50K) and the baseline date of 1956. Unfortunately, I do not know enough about coinage history to determine the significance of that year. Anybody?? I’m surprised the CAC guy didn’t throw in the additional requirement that pre- ’33 coins must be CAC certified, too!! Yeah, this will definitely get worse before it gets better.
@Vabeachbum– You make some excellent points. This sounds like a mess to me, and I would be surprised if it is not modified. If unchanged, these policies are going to really hurt e-Bay’s bottom line. I had the same reaction about NCS, and anyway as I understand it, they only conserve coins, they do not assign grades.
I was wondering about the exclusion of ANACS as well
I just don’t understand a couple of things. Does the $2,500 thing apply to all coins put on eBay? and does this mean no one can list coins without them having been graded?
Based on the information released so far, I believe it applies to US Coins only (probably not bullion since it is a separate category). Also, the grading requirement applies to US coins listed with a buy it now/reserve/start price above $2,500. So you could still list ungraded US coins valued at this amount or greater, as long as the starting price is less than $2,500 and there is no reserve/buy it now, then bidding could carry the price higher.
I think the intention is to curtail listings of uncertified, problem coins at high prices, but the current requirement is problematic for a large segment of other listings. They should revisit this requirement or at least provide some exceptions such as products in US Mint original packaging, listings from top rated sellers, lots/collections, and potentially other areas.
Regarding ANACS, I am not exactly sure what criteria they missed- maybe the online verification of serial numbers? I don’t see this capability anywhere on their website.
Update: Just read an article where ANACS states they expect to meet the requirements by May 30.
Thanks, Michael. I saw that later on the ANACS site after I asked about it.
Thanks Michael about the ANACS info.
I like the $2,500 rule. Who would spend that kind of money on a coin that wasn’t certified? I agree that coins and bullion will need to be distinguished differently somehow. However, if I were ANACS, I see no need to feel compelled to bend to EBAY’s rule for online verification. The precedent being cast forward put’s a second hand store in the drivers seat of numismatics is a bit worrisome. There are so many other venues to buy coins besides EBAY. Smells a bit of a coup here in my opinion.
Charles Commander,
Just off the top of my head, I can see issues with the sale of the UHR double eagle. Likewise, if gold goes over $2000, there will be problems with the sale of one ounce proof gold coins. We could also have issues with the sale of proof platinum eagles if platinum goes up much.
Likewise, if the US ever attempts to release a two ounce gold coin or further high-demand one ounce gold coins like the UHR, those will be unsellable as well.
This is a terrible policy and should not be implemented. It’s so bad, I have to wonder if there isn’t some kind of collusion between NGC, PCGS, and eBay going on here as another commenter suggested.
I dislike this policy as well. While you can still sell your raw UHR double eagle for whatever the bidding takes it to, you must start the bidding under $2500 and you can’t put in a reserve over $2500. This is a problem. If you were expecting to sell your UHR for $3000, but the bidding stopped at $2500.01, you must sell it for that. The seller should have some protection (with the reserve amount).
Also, by forcing you to sell via an auction instead of with a “buy it now” listing, you will pay much higher ebay “final value fees”. Effective May 1, the maxinum FVF is increasing from $100 to $250 on auctions (9% of price, up to $250 on auctions)
So, if you have to sell via auction and your coin sells for $3000, you will be charged a FVF of $250.
If you were able to sell the same coin via “buy it now” for $3000, the FVF would only be $102.50.
That’s a huge difference.
Steve says:
April 19, 2012 at 10:19 am
I dislike this policy as well. While you can still sell your raw UHR double eagle for whatever the bidding takes it to, you must start the bidding under $2500 and you can’t put in a reserve over $2500. This is a problem. If you were expecting to sell your UHR for $3000, but the bidding stopped at $2500.01, you must sell it for that. The seller should have some protection (with the reserve amount).
Also, by forcing you to sell via an auction instead of with a “buy it now” listing, you will pay much higher ebay “final value fees”. Effective May 1, the maxinum FVF is increasing from $100 to $250 on auctions (9% of price, up to $250 on auctions)
So, if you have to sell via auction and your coin sells for $3000, you will be charged a FVF of $250.
If you were able to sell the same coin via “buy it now” for $3000, the FVF would only be $102.50.
That’s a huge difference.
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This is why I am a big fan of GREATCOLLECTIONS.COM for selling coins. No seller fees if the coin sells for over $1000.
This policy change may reduce high-value sales on eBay, as both buyers and sellers move to other online auction houses. I think the change has to do with eBay reducing their potential losses (and possibly making money via kickbacks from the chosen grading services?), not necessarily with helping the customer. It just seems like a bad policy change that will need revision.
Sam,
I have heard about that, but if I understand correctly, GC also does not like the seller to set a reserve price. That seems risky for a valuable coin. Have you had much experience selling with GC? Also, FYI, Teletrade has the same deal now but only for a limited time.
Louis,
I have sold several coins with GC. Some of the coins, I sold with a starting bid price of $1 and they eventually sold for prices comparable to eBay and some of more valuable coins I sold with a higher starting bid price. I found that they were willing to work with me. They gave me advice but in the end let me make the decision.
Thanks a lot, Sam.
1 Point:
The fact that buyers will not be able to claim the certified grade is not much of anything so long as pictures show the grade from the unacceptable grader
An observation: It seems that most of con artists who were all over ebay as recently as 2009 and 2010, pushing highly over-graded raw coins and currency, are gone. One reason may be the high selling fees. The older iteration of their authorized graders policy did nothing at all. Is anyone aware of any actual crackdown on the sellers misrepresenting their coins and notes?