Numismatic Guaranty Corporation, or NGC, of Sarasota, Florida has announced attribution of a new variety of one of the collector versions of the five-ounce America the Beautiful silver coins (http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2265&NGC-Recognizes-New-Variety-of-2010-P-Grand-Canyon-5-Ounce-Specimen-Issue). The new variety is called “light finish” and was discovered on 2010-P Grand Canyon coins purchased by two collectors from the U.S. Mint. The new finish is described by NGC as “a slightly reflective satin finish” that is “lustrous” rather than “granular” as the regular 2010 P coins are.
Grand Canyon Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coins, "light finish" on left
The difference in the finish was noted within a thread posted on the Collectors Universe Message Boards on July 12 (http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=823449). This was followed by an article published by Coin World on July 18. The collectors who bought the coins and noticed the unusual finish are Jim Scroggins and the local barber of collector Aaron J. Gelner, named Tom Schneider.
The collector versions of these coins differ from the bullion versions because they are handled with special care to avoid marks and are treated with a special vapor blasting technique that combines water vapor and ceramic media mix and is designed to give the coins a uniform and matte finish. The finish is applied after striking the coins and is applied to the coin, not the die.
NGC has a VarietyPlus attribution service which costs $10 per coin. This service needs to be used in order to have the coins labeled as being of the “light finish” variety. The coins of the new variety lack the post-strike finish which regular 2010 P coins have, but they have the P mintmark and lack the abrasions typical of the 2010 bullion coins.
There is absolutely no indication at this point of how many such coins exist, or whether other 2010 P coins have the same type of finish. It is hard to say how much premium the light finish coins will carry until some estimate of their number is determined. That may be difficult as many people may not know they have one, or may decide to keep theirs in its original government packaging (OGP), which seems to be the preference of most collectors.
This situation reminds me of the 2008-W with reverse of 2007 silver eagles. Based on the results of a Freedom of Information Act request, there were 46,318 pieces struck with the reverse type of the previous year. In addition, collectors have discovered the existence of three “Frosted Freedom” variety of 2007-W proof platinum eagle coins, which are pre-production strikes the Mint never intended to release. According to statements from the Mint there were 12 one ounce, 21 half ounce, and 21 quarter ounce coins released.
Some collectors have expressed a preference for the matte finish used on the numismatic ATB coins, while others are wedded to the proof-like and deep mirror proof-like finish on some of the bullion coins. Although prices for sets and singles of the 2010 bullion coins have declined substantially from the levels they reached when the coins were hard to find in the winter and early spring, some of the DMPL coins still bring substantial premiums. This is probably because those coins have lower populations on the PCGS and NGC population and census reports than coins without the DMPL finish. However, the premiums vary greatly depending on the coin and grade, and some DMPL coins do not bring much premium.
In other developments, the 2010 P coin that honors the Mount Hood national forest, which is the last 2010 numismatic version, will be released next week, on July 28 starting at 12:00 noon EST. If silver prices remain in the $40 range, demand may be stronger than it was during initial sales of last couple releases. In my view, silver price will be shaped mainly by the debt situation in Europe and the U.S. If authorities in both areas reach agreements to move forward in solving their debt problems, metals are likely to fall, and equities will probably rally, because there will be less safe haven demand. But that may be a short-lived development, especially since the European crisis is expected to be a drag on the world economy for years to come, as is the U.S. fiscal situation. In fact, though not widely reported, on July 18 the U.S. rating agency, Egan-Jones, downgraded the country’s credit rating from triple A to double A plus.
Meanwhile, the Mint has announced that not at all 2011 P numismatic versions will be sold this year but has not given a reason for the delay, specified which 2011 coins will be delayed until next year, or announced mintage levels for the 2011 coins. I think it would really help collectors if the Mint would be more forthcoming about details of the 2011 program, especially after releasing so many ATB’s at once which depressed demand and prices. Collectors need to be able to plan and budget for all these coin purchases, especially during a year when their budgets have taken such a heavy toll.
Rising silver prices seem to have spurred some renewed interest, but there is no question that demand has declined for these coins. If the 2011 P mintages are higher than 27,000, as many expect, demand for the collector versions will be in jeopardy, and I am not sure I will collect them. I may opt to continue the bullion set instead, depending on what happens to silver, and will not have them graded after a recent bad experience. But it is possible to get some good deals on already graded examples including MS69 and MS69 PL/DMPL coins for small premiums over raw coins.
Louis Golino is a long-time collector, numismatist, and numismatic writer. His articles have been published in Coin World, Numismatic News, and other publications. He also writes a regular column for www.CoinWeek.com and has written widely about international politics for newspapers and web sites.
“will not have them graded after a recent bad experience” – NGC and PCGS seem to have that effect on their customers!
I love the ATB 5 oz coins – for storage, keep them raw or in PCGS holders (ngc = excessively large). The 2010 bullion coins with their tiny mintage are pretty awesome.
I think it’s quite possible the Mint itself has yet to decide what to do about the 2011-Ps, which would explain the incoherence we’re hearing. I think they are going to probably watch and see what happens with the Mount Hood coins before making a decision. I have said this before, but I rather hope they discontinue the Ps after Mt. Hood given the enormous strain they have placed on my budget, and I say this as someone who likes the P series. I am not sure that the rising price of silver will have a big effect on purchases due to a combination of collector fatigue, flipper suspicion and disenchantment with the coins, and the big panic sales of gold products that are currently ongoing (such as the Medal of Honor uncirculated, the 2011-W gold eagle, and the Julia Grant spouse coin).
With that having been said, I do agree with your advice to turn to the bullion. I think these coins will probably become more rare as the series goes on than even the Ps. They are cheaper and are relatively easy to come by right now, though if we have a truly gigantic explosion in the price of silver to the upside ($50+) then the P series may become more popular again after all!
Bill and CaptainOverkill,
Thanks for your comments. What concerns me most about either version is that the series will continue for about 10 more years, and silver is likely to reach levels we can barely imagine today. That may indeed produce some very low mintage coins, but it’s going to be really tough to keep up with any ATB series if silver is $100 or $200 an ounce, and each coin is $500-1000 or more. Some experts even predict silver at $300-500 an ounce and within just a few years…….
Louis,
Thank you for the response. Part of the reason I am buying these coins is because, in fact, I anticipate silver reaching those levels someday relatively soon. I think we will definitely have $50 silver by the end of the year and likely much sooner. Where will it stop? $100? $150? Will the government attempt to impose price controls or stop sales of silver coins to the general public? With those kinds of price increases and the uncertainty of the government response, it will not take long for the AtBs to become the second coming of the First Spouses. The flippers who complain about current premiums for these coins are not taking a long enough view, in my opinion. While this is hurting my budget, I am still gritting my teeth and buying, because I think in a few years, I will deeply regret it if I don’t buy them while I can.
Update on the new variety: I am still trying to get a clear answer on this, but it appears there are actually three varietes: the regular 2010 P Grand Canyon, a light finish variety according to NGC, and a third “no finish” variety, which is what Mr. Gelner says his barber received, and which would appear to be the scarcest type. It will probably take some time to sort it all out.
Yes there is three versions, the regular vp blast than the light blast and than there are some without the VB blast at all. After reading the post from Aaron, my buddy brought his by for me to send in to pcgs, as soon as I looked at his I knew there was a difference, The one we got was a light finish really its easy to notice the difference. Now some people are saying the light vb is not an error but the ones without are, If you go watch the mints video on how these are made you will notice in the video they are showing a P puck without any VB blast? So those never entered the blaster meanwhile the light blasted ones did go thru the process but for some reason didnt get the full VB. So which is the real error, the one that didn’t even go thru the line or the ones that went thru but didn’t get the right amount of VB? To me if your gonna reconize the NO VB than you must reconize the light VB, Will be interesting to see how many of these got out, have not heard any new reports of these being found so either the mint has shut them down to look thru them or there still some out there in sealed boxes………………Also you stated those who found these sent them to ngc, none of the collectors on the forum have sent theres in yet. Mine is sitting at pcgs waiting to see if there going to reconize them, mcm did send in 100 and got 6 that were light finish.
Tom,
Thanks a lot for the info. I am working on a follow-up story that will clarify these points as much as is possible at this point.
Anyone willing to answer some really dumb questions about the 5 oz. ATB Grand Canyon coin?
I’m new to all of this and get really confused with all the differences in this coin.
Just wondering, I have a 2010 P Grand Canyon purchased from mint with what looks to have no VB blast. It does appear to have light horizontal brush marks on obverse side like it was processed without going thur the final finish? Has anyone seen/heard of this?
Steve,
I have indeed heard of another collector who received a similar coin. I sent you a message to the address you used to send your comment and just wanted to make sure you received it. I would like to mention your coin in the follow-up story I am working on, and it would be great if you could send me a photo of your coin. Thanks a lot, Louis
Louis,
Like several of the collectors on this blog I have pursued purchasing all of the ATB’s and will this coming week grab the last of the 2010 with Mt. hood. Prior to Michael temporarily suspending commentary on his blog he commented that the coins to watch this year thus far were the uncirculated Medal of Honor and Army Commemorative Coins as well the Unc Gold Eagle (1P3). I have also read elsewhere that the eagle might be a sleeper with a potential high yeild on investment later down the road. With gold on the rise and recent cost increases for the eagle and related products do you have any thoughts on how you see these products? Specifically, in light of what appears to be low sales figures for the Unc eagle do you have words of wisdom for someone like myself whose yearly coin budget has been brought to the brink of exhaustion and would consider purchasing the unc eagle if I could make more sense of this coin as an investment. Thanks
I just purchased an NGC SP69 ER ATB Yellowstone for $285 and an NGC MS70 2011 W AGE (brown label) for $1900 which I thought was a fair price for both esp. considering the mint just raised their price for the unc AGE to $1828. Despite the higher sales figures last week I’ m still hoping this coin will be the lowest minted AGE to date although AGE sales figures in years ahead may be even lower as gold prices continue to rise.
Psychdr,
I think the UNC 2011-W gold eagle is your best bet of the ones you mentioned. You may want to wait and see if there is a temporary dip in gold say once they reach a deal on the debt problem.
If you think as I do that silver is going up, up, up, then the thing to do is buy duplicates of the 2010 and 2011 bullion and in future years sell or trade them for the new ones, That way the whole set costs you $40 an ounce, not $100 or $200 an ounce.
For the best ones I’m using 3-1/4 inch flips and for the rest I got an empty monster box with the original tubes. It will be neat to have a monster box full of them some day!
Sounds like a good strategy, Mark. FYI- They sell big capsules for the ATB’s which offer better protection than flips. Some companies ship them in the capsules.
Thanks for the info. Very interesting. I’ve purchased the 5oz P series for Hot Springs, Yosemite, Yellowstone and Grand Canyon. I was very pleased with the stike quality and luster of the Hot Springs issue when it arrived. It far exceded what I had expected. When the remaining coins arrived I was equally as surprised they didn’t have the same luster and wow factor. I’m beginning to wonder if my Hot Springs has either a light finish or no finish. I will certainly get them from storage, lay them all out side by side and follow up.
Take a look on ebay this week, to see the LIGHT SATIN(Satin Finish) prices….TALK about premiums…look….every denomination has a key date, sometimes more…the ATB SP series to date, has 4 known Light Finish Varieties…in the long haul, with low population numbers(8 know for Gettysburg, 6 known for Yellowstone, 36 for Hot Springs, and about 420 for Grand canyon), these rare specimens will only rise in value. To make a true “complete Set with varieties”, one needs all 4 of these varieties. 1 person in the NGC set registry has accomplished this..even after almost 5 years since production.